This week, you got to hear from guest speakers Christie Jenkins, Mary Kate Reese, and Danielle Walsh. The guest speakers discuss various pleasure and sexual lifestyles, including kink, fetishes, BDSM, leather, and other types of pleasure and sexual play. In this Discussion, you will reflect on how the guest speakers challenged or changed your knowledge about these topics.
To prepare:
Identify in which areas you have the most knowledge and least knowledge based on the three diagrams (amorous expression, power expression, and spectrum of play) in the pleasure and sexual lifestyle section of the Sexological Assessment.
Consider how the Learning Resources this week challenged or changed your previous knowledge about these topics. Choose one guest speaker from the three guest speakers mentioned above (Christie Jenkins, Mary Kate Reese, and Danielle Walsh) to focus on for your main post. In your post, respond to the following questions:
Describe what you learned from the guest speaker.
Explain how the guest speaker challenged or changed your knowledge or perspective.
Explain how this might impact your comfort level when working with clients engaged in, or considering, various pleasure and sexual lifestyles.
I sent you the transcript of the guest speaker
JENNIFER GESS: Today, class
we have Danielle Walsh, counselor in Oregon and also
licensed in Idaho, I believe. So Danielle, thank you so
much for being with us today. If you could please just kind
of introduce yourself and share a little bit about who you
are and what brings you to our class today as a guest
speaker, that would be great. DANIELLE WALSH:
Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Danielle Walsh. I use she/her pronouns. And I am currently living and
working in Portland, Oregon. I work mostly with
the queer community and the trans community. And I also identify as part
of the queer community. So yeah, I work at
a nonprofit clinic that has both primary care
services and mental health services under the same
roof and specializes in serving the LGBT community. Just another piece
that’s probably relevant to this
course is that I’m working towards my certification
as a sex therapist. About a year ago, I finished
up a yearlong postgraduate certificate program through
the University of Michigan to get some specialized training
in working as a sex therapist. So I’m finishing up that process
and super excited about that. JENNIFER GESS: Congratulations. That’s very exciting. I think we might have
a number of students who are interested in becoming
certified as sex therapists, so this’ll be really
great that they can hear about your experience. So this week, we are learning
about different pleasure and sexual lifestyles. So from your
perspective, why is it important for counselors
to understand differing and various sexual and pleasure
lifestyles among our clients? DANIELLE WALSH: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And thinking about
doing this interview, I thought I would
talk a little bit from my own personal
experience, because in addition to working
with clients who identify as part of the kink community, I
also am part of that community. And I think what
might be most helpful is if I talk a little bit
about some of my fears accessing health care as a
person in the kink community. And I know, Jen,
you specifically asked about kind of mental
health and counseling. But I just want to talk a little
bit about broader health care, too, because I think
it’s important. And even among the counseling
students and counselors, physical health is
sometimes less stigmatized and better understood and
a little more tangible. So I just want to
talk a little bit about what it’s like maybe for
me to even go to the doctor. As someone who is part
of the kink community and sometimes
engaging in behaviors that might leave
marks on my body, I just think it’s
important for folks to know there’s been
times that that’s happened and I felt really unsafe
going to the doctor. So maybe I’ll have
marks on my body and I will be sick, but not go
to the doctor and access care or I’ll just be walking around
really afraid– oh, my gosh, if something happens and
I go to the emergency room and they see my body, what
are they going to think? What’s going to happen? And it’s really actually kind
of a dangerous thing as a member of the kink community. In a lot of states,
what we do is illegal, even though it’s
an activity that’s negotiated and consensual
between two adults. So at worst, my
partner could end up getting in trouble for
some of the things we do and facing legal actions. At best, I could
just be asked a lot of really uncomfortable,
invasive questions that I don’t want to deal with. So that’s kind of from
physical health side, but how it kind of translates
into counseling is similar. Because I will say, as
someone in the kink community, and I’ve heard my clients say
this– members of the kink community– it really
causes a lot of anxiety to seek out counseling. And sometimes, folks avoid
care because they’re not sure the reception
they’re going to get. I think one of the
things that I’m anxious about in
counseling, when I’m talking about my
identity and who I am, is just that some of the things
I share about my relationship are going to be
pathologized or stigmatized. So in addition to kind of
engaging in physical play and kink, I also have power
dynamics in my relationship. So I’ll just kind of
make up an example, but this is not true for me. But in some power
exchange relationships, there might be a
rule about, gosh, when you eat out at a
restaurant, one person orders food for the other person. And if that was me and I
brought that into therapy, I would be really
nervous that my therapist might perceive that as
abusive or might perceive my relationship as
codependent, when, in reality, that’s been
talked about, that’s been consented to,
that’s something that either partner could stop
by just saying a simple word, a safe word. So there’s a lot of fear that
things that are healthy for me would be pathologized
and stigmatized, if that makes sense. JENNIFER GESS: Yeah,
Danielle, thank you so much for sharing all that, especially
about your personal identity. So you’re talking about a lot
of pathology that can occur, both in the health
care systems and then also in the kind of
counseling setting. So either for you as a client
or for you as a clinician, what are some ways
that counselors can be kink-affirming? DANIELLE WALSH: That’s
a great question. I think watching things like
this video is a great start and kind of getting
to know folks that are part of the community. Hopefully I’m not scary
and unapproachable. I think that I am a
pretty normal person in most areas of my
life, but there’s a side of me that gets a lot
of pleasure and enjoyment and fulfillment out of being
part of the kink community. And I think holding that
in mind for clients, there’s a lot of ways that kink
has made me a better person. I’m more connected
to my community. I have a lot more opportunities
to do service work, like raise money for a charity. I have learned all
about consent and how to be a healthy partner
in relationships through the kink community. So if you are immediately
kind of approaching kink as a pathology– and I will say,
in the DSM, there are still diagnoses for
things that are kink-related. I’ve seen a lot of
progress in my lifetime even around kind of
sexual orientation and even gender identity
being destigmatized. But for us, the
language is still there, the diagnoses are still there. So it’s scary. But yeah, I mean,
just keeping in mind that kink can be a really
healthy, beneficial thing for a lot of people. Like anything else, there’s
times where maybe it isn’t. But just really suspending
your own judgment and listening to your clients’
experience is important. JENNIFER GESS: Great. Thank you for sharing that. So you kind of talked a little
bit about your own identity as a kinkster. Would you mind sharing a
little bit more about that? What does it look like for you? DANIELLE WALSH: So I hold a
couple different identities within the kink community. And throughout my
life, my identities have kind of shifted. And there’s been times where
certain identities have been more or less important to me. So I can talk a little bit
about two of my identities. Specifically, I am part
of the leather community. And I can talk a little
bit about what that means. And recently, I’ve been
exploring puppy identity, which is really fun and exciting. And I’ll talk a
little bit about that. Just to back up, though. I’m using kink kind of
as an umbrella term. And I mean, if you ask
10 different people that are part of the community,
what does kink mean to you or what does
leather mean to you? You will get 10
different answers. So this is just
my personal take, what these things mean to me. So I kind of see kink
as this umbrella. And the identities that I
talked about– leather and being part of the pup community–
are kind of identities under that umbrella. And so one way that I’ve
had leather explained to me that helped me was that most
leather people kind of engage in some kink practices, but not
all kinky people are leather. So it’s definitely a subset. But to me, what leather means
is I’m part of a culture, as opposed to just practicing
a set of behaviors, which might be kind of kink or S&M.
I am attracted to the leather community and I identify
because I share values with people in that community
and I share a history with people in that community. Just to give a little
background on what leather is– and I don’t want to go
into a big history lesson, but the readers digest version. Leather really came out of– it came out of
post-World War II era. Because what had
happened, a lot of men were serving overseas in the
war and forming relationships with each other– sexual relationships,
romantic relationships. And then all of a
sudden, the war ended and they were kind of
shipped back to the US and ended up coming to port
cities, like San Francisco. And they were kind
of really looking for that camaraderie
around men and kind of some of the culture of
the military to be recreated in the States, so kind of
discipline and hierarchy and rules and rituals. And the way that people
eventually ended up finding that was
through motorcycle clubs actually, because it was
kind of this safe cover. It was hyper masculine. It’s the exact opposite of
a stereotype for a gay man. So these hyper
masculine spaces where some of the dynamics that were
part of combat and World War II were recreated,
and that ended up birthing the leather community
and all these practices that leather people
still engage in. And it was very much a gay
male phenomena and still is to a certain extent, but
I identify as a queer woman. And what ended up
happening around the 1980s, when a lot of men,
unfortunately, were dying of HIV/AIDS,
lesbian women kind of were brought into the
community because they were caretaking for those men. So just being a part of
that legacy and that culture is meaningful to me. And practically, it
translates into really kind of silly things like
wearing leather, but there’s also a lot of
values and tradition present. And so again,
talking about things like community service
and integrity and honesty, those are all things– being safe, sane,
and consensual– those are all things that are
part of the leather community and really important to me. So I hang out with those people. So that’s kind of leather,
a long explanation. To shift to kind
of pup identity– and this is something
I’m a little bit scared to talk about, to be honest. To kind of talk
about these things, I’m really grateful
for this opportunity. But I just want to share,
it is pretty vulnerable and I can imagine
a lot of people watching this might be
having some reactions. And part of why I
wanted to do this was because this is a great
opportunity for students to have reactions and kind
of examine those and sort through them before they are
across from a client who’s kinky or part of the
same community as I am. So I just want to
throw it out there that it’s totally fine
if people watching this are having reactions or
thinking it’s strange or weird, but maybe just kind
of sitting with that and exploring that and
being curious about that and wondering what that’s
about would be helpful. But yeah, so a pup identity. Super fun, super silly. It’s the identity people
get most weirded out about, because there’s a lot–
again, a lot of stigma. And people’s minds
immediately jump to bestiality, which has
nothing to do with pup play. It’s only something
done among human beings and consenting adults. And again, it’s all negotiated. But basically, I like to
actually dress up like a puppy. And there’s a whole community. There’s opportunities
where I can go and play with other puppies and
just be silly and have fun. And for me, it’s
like a headspace. Walking around
the world, so much you are worried about work
and money and relationships and all sorts of stress. And it’s fun to just act
like a silly puppy sometimes. And it’s really
sweet and innocent. And for a large percentage of
people in the pup community, there’s nothing sexual about it. There can be. There can be an erotic element. But again, it’s
stuff that happens between consenting adults. And it’s good, too, and
something a lot of people enjoy. So those are the two communities
I’m kind of hanging out with– the leather people and
the puppy community right now. JENNIFER GESS:
Danielle, thank you so much for being so
courageous and vulnerable and sharing that. And I completely agree with you. I think opening up and
sharing different parts of our identities can help
our students then become– just normalize other experiences
and kind of destigmatize this as well. So that’s hugely helpful. And I love the history part. I didn’t know quite
a bit about that. So thank you. DANIELLE WALSH: Absolutely. JENNIFER GESS: You mentioned
three very important words– safe, sane, and consensual. I’m wondering if you could
elaborate a little bit more on what those words mean within
the kink and leather community. DANIELLE WALSH: Yeah, so
that’s a great question. Safe, sane, and consensual
was a big part of my life when I was kind of coming out
into leather 10, 15 years ago. And those words
are used so often. There’s just an acronym. Leather people or kink
people talk about SSC. Actually, there’s kind of been
a shift to a different acronym, which is interesting. So kind of the newer
acronym is RACK, which is risk-aware consensual kink. Kind of the argument was, a
lot of people in the community are doing things that have
the potential to be unsafe. Anything has a
potential to be unsafe. Getting in your car and
driving to the grocery store can be unsafe. And so it was kind of
an inaccurate thing to imply that all the activities
we engage in are safe. But being risk-aware,
on other hand, knowing that certain
activities have potential benefits
and potential risks, that’s kind of more realistic. So that’s where the
RACK acronym comes in. Also, sane– that kind
of has a lot of stigma. Mindful of language– we
don’t call people crazy. So to imply something is insane
or not sane is a little bit stigmatizing, too. So yeah, the big parts are
we’re being conceptual. So most of the things that
happens between people who are engaging in BDSM,
or should be happening, is a long conversation
beforehand about what is and isn’t OK. And there, again, I talked
a little bit earlier about safe words–
there always should be a way for either partner to
kind of stop play instantly. What I was saying
earlier about kind of worrying that therapists,
that if I talked about power exchange in a
relationship, might see me kind of as a victim, I
feel so empowered that I can be with my partner and
be in the middle of something and just instantly stop it, no
questions asked, with one word. I don’t think many vanilla
people have that kind of power in their relationship. So I mean, that’s
really important. In something that’s
going on, you can be kind of watching
the most big, scary S&M porn or interaction between two
people, but what you don’t know is that there’s all that kind of
negotiation in the background. There’s all that kind
of built-in safety around that interaction. JENNIFER GESS: You’ve
brought up negotiation. Would you mind elaborating? What does it mean to negotiate? And what are some things
that maybe a counselor should be aware of with
clients who identify as kink or in the BDSM community? What does negotiation–
what is that? DANIELLE WALSH: Sure. Well, ideally, negotiation
isn’t something that just kinky people do. I think everyone
should be negotiating. So it looks like having
a conversation about STIs with your partner. It looks like having a
conversation about, look, this feels good when you do
this and this doesn’t feel good when you do this. It looks like, especially
for trans and queer folks, I call this part of my
body this and please don’t use these words for that. So that’s not specific to kink. But I think when
you get into things that have the potential
for harm, if done wrong, there’s kind of
another level of, gosh, maybe I’ve had a
bad experience with having my face slapped in the past
and that really triggers me, so please don’t do that. Being really mindful
of past trauma, being mindful of people’s
kind of medical conditions and maybe injuries– maybe
if someone has a back injury, you want to avoid that area. Those are all parts
of negotiations. And there’s more than
I’m even mentioning. Just anything that’s
important for your partner to know while you’re engaging
in sexual activity or kink. JENNIFER GESS: Great. Thank you so much. Is there anything
else that you would like to make sure our
students know about? DANIELLE WALSH: I don’t
have anything in particular that I really want to add. But I would just
encourage people, again, to kind of explore some of
their own thoughts and feelings around this. And it’s not something
that has to be something you’re interested in
or something you do, but you definitely need to
know how to support a client or sit across from a client
and be present and not have kind of your own
values running away with you in your own
thoughts and feelings. So I hope that this
has been helpful and kind of helping
people think about things through a new lens. JENNIFER GESS: I guarantee you
it’s been very, very helpful. So Danielle, thank you
so much for your time. We really, really
appreciate you being a guest speaker this week. And we look forward to
seeing you next time.
Hello,
Here are some helpful graphics on BDSM vs. Abuse for you all to supplement your learning this week. I will be giving some helpful resources to supplement your learning in the DB, so make sure to check back frequently. I am looking forward to our discussion this week.
Dr. Jones
Links to an external site.
